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Home / LINUX DISTRIBUTIONS: Q&A;, discussion a fast linux desktop?

a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) sonnu Profile Howdy I'm running: Pentium IV 2,8 ghz 512 mb of DDR 400 ATI Radeon 9600 256 mb MSI motherboard with 865 chipset Hitachi 7200rpm/8 mb 120 GB deskstar HDD ...but the point is I tried Lindows and it was still so god damn slow compared to Windows...what's the matter?I took like "ages" to open Mozilla compared to opening IE in Windows XP.This may be a little out of proportion but I would like to have a speedy experience... Also tried Xandros, which IMHO is bull****, but it's just a metter of taste, so no offence, you Xandros fans out there... What do you ppl think of Lycoris?Is it worth a try? Thanks 07-18-2004 17:06:19

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) kevin Profile I took like "ages" to open Mozilla compared to opening IE in Windows XP. Compare opening the same version of mozilla on linux vs on windows, that's a better starting point. How does mozilla perform once it is loaded? Microsoft reportedly preloads the libraries for IE which makes it load faster. The same can be done for mozilla. Or you can use firefox (or konqueror) which are smaller. Also, if the load time for everything seems pretty bad, try typing this into a terminal: /sbin/hdparm /dev/hda and see if 'using_dma' is on or off. If it is off, that can be easily corrected. -kev 07-18-2004 19:03:33

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) LinuxTechGuy >>>I tried Lindows<<< your first mistake >>>slow compared to Windows<<< never had this issue myself, but I guess it's possible >>>took like "ages" to open Mozilla compared to opening IE in Windows XP<<< this is because mozilla unlike IE is not loaded into memory and wasting resources even though you are not using it, mozilla is a lot more secure and more functional so therefore woth the wait IMHO >>>What do you ppl think of Lycoris?<<< Honestly never tried it, but if you are looking for a stable, full featured distro with plenty of speed I would suggest Debian Sarge Just some humble opinions in regards to your post 07-18-2004 19:12:18

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) kevin Profile >>>I tried Lindows<<< your first mistake Why is Lindows a mistake? Have you tried it? A lot of old school linux guys bash lindows, even I once regarded lindows with suspicion. But I've never tried linspire. Lindows/Linspire could be a very good solution for recent windows converts. >>>What do you ppl think of Lycoris?<<< Honestly never tried it, but if you are looking for a stable, full featured distro with plenty of speed I would suggest Debian Sarge Lindows is debian sarge, with enhancements. My wife uses Xandros, which is also debian sarge plus enhancements. So I can personally attest that an enhanced version of debian sarge is a fantastic idea, at least in the case of Xandros. Lindows looks like it might be as nice or even better. I briefly tried Lycoris and I didn't like it. But I have different needs and plenty of experience with linux. So I can't say whether someone who hasn't used linux for very long would benefit from Lycoris. I'm not their target market. In most cases, it's best to at least try to solve the problem. I've seen threads on this site where every post is a suggestion to switch to the poster's favorite distro, when the solution is as simple as tweaking a config file, installing a driver, or enabling dma. That doesn't always mean that it is never worthwhile to switch distros; sometimes people would be better served with something different. But if you only have one problem with your chosen distro (in this case performance) it's worth attempting solve the problem. In general even if someone asks point blank which distro to start with I post this link: http://www.distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major Most linux distributions have a target market. I avoid recommending a specific distribution unless I feel like I have a good idea what the person's needs are. -kev 07-18-2004 22:09:31

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) Doog Profile | Email never tried Lycoris but have tried Lindows/Linspire, Xandros, Knoppix & Gnoppix. The first two I found to be too corporate and full of features and icons that offered upgrades to the full versions to get full functions & to install software etc. Always for more money. I found this didn't suit my needs as the Knoppix free live CD was just as good for me, installed to my HD very easily and was not full of advirts and scams to make me part with my cash. Stopping Bill Gates gravy train is one of the reasons I'm switching to Linux so it always turns me off when the first thing I encounter from a Debian/Linux distro is more of the same. Plus I found Lindows quite slow. 07-22-2004 00:49:15

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) walterbyrd >> Why is Lindows a mistake? Have you tried it? A lot of old school linux guys bash lindows, even I once regarded lindows with suspicion. But I've never tried linspire. Lindows/Linspire could be a very good solution for recent windows converts. << I tried it a few months ago when they were giving it away for free. I didn't like it very much. It looks nice, but it's not very stable, k3B caused it to crash on me three times in a row. It takes a lot of resourse. It is very slow to boot. The install, although easy, is not very flexible. As I understand it, lindows loads all modules, which is one reason that it takes so long to boot, and uses so many resources. By default, the user is given admin priviledges. And the hard sell stuff gets annoying. They want to sell you staroffice, so they don't include openoffice on the install version, although openoffice is on the livecd. Then they want to sell you AV software. The they want you to subscribe to their proprietary upgrade schedule. It never seems to end. I just can't understand why anybody would pay $70 for lindows, when knoppix is free. Also, I have found, the hard way, that keeping debian up-to-date, works much better with straight up debian. I've tried keeping Xandros and Libranet up-to-date with apt-get - believe me, pure debian works much better. >>Honestly never tried it, but if you are looking for a stable, full featured distro with plenty of speed I would suggest Debian Sarge<< That is what I'm using right now. What sarge does, it does damn well. But, there is so much that sarge doesn't do - at least not without a fight. Last time I had sarge, I could not get the printer to work for love nor money. I worked at it for hours. It just wouldn't happen. Tried a few other versions, now I'm back to sarge. Now I can't seem to get my sound to work, and I've haven't got the printer to work either. Debian is a great distro in many respects (best package management IMO), but IMO, debian has the worst install and worst HW detection in the business. 07-24-2004 13:59:37

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) LinuxTechGuy Forgot I had posted on this thread so I haven't been watching it, but the reason I said Lindows is a mistake is because it is. If you take Linux, dumb it down to the point of point and click, kill all stability, make every user who walks up to the box an admin, and force people to continually pay a monthly/yearly fee just for free software, well that is just too damn close to being windows 98. As far as Debian Sarge, I can recommend it for this reason "it just works." sound familiar to anyone? I agree the install can be a pain but it's a one off deal in most situations, and you don't need automatic hardware detection if you take the time to find out what is actually sitting inside that pretty little case on the desk. 07-24-2004 15:05:03

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) kevin Profile I didn't like it very much. Just so I can gauge your perspective, can you name any linux distributions that you like "very much"? I wasn't aware that you considered any linux distribution to be acceptable. I just can't understand why anybody would pay $70 for lindows, when knoppix is free. Polish? Commercial support? Who knows. Your needs aren't that ever everyone elses. Knoppix works better as a livecd than as an installation. I don't even think it is wise to use knoppix as an "installer for debian". You don't end up with debian, you end up with knoppix. Also, I have found, the hard way, that keeping debian up-to-date, works much better with straight up debian. Agreed, nothing beats pure debian for maintenance. But most newbs obscess over the installation/configuration phase (it is a bit overwhelming). A soft landing might be worth $70 for some people. I've tried keeping Xandros and Libranet up-to-date with apt-get - believe me, pure debian works much better. I don't believe you. I keep xandros up to date with apt-get and I find it works nicer than their gui (which is merely a front end to apt). If you go mucking with their sources.list then you will screw things up of course but we've had this conversation before haven't we? You can't just put anything you want in sources.list without consequences. but IMO, debian has the worst install and worst HW detection in the business. I haven't tried this yet but either 'apt-get install discover' or 'apt-get install kuzdu' (don't do both) is supposed to help quite a bit. Of course kudzu is the redhat hardware detection software and discover was developed for debian by progeny, and if you install with the default installer for sarge you should have discover already. but the reason I said Lindows is a mistake is because it is. That's hardly a persuasive argument. If you take Linux, dumb it down to the point of point and click, Are you seriously arguing that this is a disadvantage? kill all stability, Ok, that's 2 people who call it 'unstable', whatever that means. , make every user who walks up to the box an admin, a Admittedly a poor idea, but for a home desktop this is not a serious problem (until viruses start popping up). force people to continually pay a monthly/yearly fee just for free software, I'm seriously troubled by the widespread misconception that 'free software' means 'no charge' instead of 'not proprietary' or 'unencumbered'. I don't think people should feel bad about, say downloading debian for free (though long time users like myself really ought to donate to the project). But a polished distribution like Xandros is worth paying for. I paid $100 for the first copy of Xandros I bought and it was worth every penny. It has been zero maintenence, and I mean that as literally as it can be said. After the first hour there was nothing left to do. No reboots for years until Xandros 2.0 came out. The best part? This is my wife's computer. She hasn't had any problems or reason to ask me for assistance. For years. That is really impressive, and I would not have had that experience had I set her up with debian sarge (my own desktop). I can recommend it for this reason "it just works." sound familiar to anyone? Yes, it's a phrase that linux zealots repeat over and over again until it has no meaning. Walterbyrd has had substantial trouble configuring sarge. Granted, he is "special" ( and fun to tease) but that is beside the point. Consider your audience: desktoplinux.com isn't helping seasoned linux experts. We're helping people who are very non technical migrate to linux. Some are, but they quickly move on or start contributing. I think debian sarge is the best choice overall as well, but it's too much for some people to handle as a first shot. If you doggedly insist that debian/sarge (or any specific distribution) is what all newbs should use, and convince some to try it, some of them simply are going to walk away because it's too hard. That will be their first impression of linux, and that impression won't fade for a long time. If you honestly care about the future of linux, consider that it is better to tell someone to give it another year than to let them try and decide that linux is too hard. -kev 07-24-2004 18:41:27

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) walterbyrd >>you don't need automatic hardware detection if you take the time to find out what is actually sitting inside that pretty little case on the desk.<< True enough. But, with debian, even if you take the time, you *still* can't install the hw. At least that's been my experience, and the experience of many others; if the posters on linuxquestions.org are to be believed. Sound is an especially difficult problem with the new kernel. Another example, I'm certain that I took the right steps to install a printer a debian. I've done the same thing on many other distros, even debian based and it worked. But not debian, it just wouldn't take. mplayer and xine work on other distos just fine. I could set them up on slackware. Neither work for me on debian. mplayer half-way works, but everything is in slow motion, and it won't play .WMVs (it used to). Frankly, I somewhat resent the implication that I'm just to lazy to learn how to install HW manually. I spend hours reading manuals, googeling, asking questions on message boards, trying different things. The bottom line is, debian often doesn't work the way it's supposed to work. Diagnosing the problems and figuring a way around them is what's so difficult. That said, debian has a lot of strong points. Great package management. A solid, stable, and fast platform. Although, I'm using stright up debian sarge myself, and I like it in many ways; I see a lot of weak points. 07-24-2004 18:49:36

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) LinuxTechGuy >>>>I think debian sarge is the best choice overall as well, but it's too much for some people to handle as a first shot. If you doggedly insist that debian/sarge (or any specific distribution) is what all newbs should use, and convince some to try it, some of them simply are going to walk away because it's too hard. That will be their first impression of linux, and that impression won't fade for a long time. If you honestly care about the future of linux, consider that it is better to tell someone to give it another year than to let them try and decide that linux is too hard.<<<<< I don't insist on anything, use whatever you like. That's the point of Linux. And by the way, my first distro was Debian Slink, installed, configured and maintained all by my newbie little self, so no I don't think Sarge is too much to ask from a beginner. 07-24-2004 21:40:52

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) kevin Profile I don't insist on anything, use whatever you like. >>>I tried Lindows<<< your first mistake ... I would suggest Debian Sarge Persuade? Advocate? Sell? I'm trying to persuade you that plugging sarge and completely dimissing commercial distros is not appropriate for all audiences. And by the way, my first distro was Debian Slink, installed, configured and maintained all by my newbie little self, so no I don't think Sarge is too much to ask from a beginner. Mine was slackware 2.3, installed, configured, and maintained by myself. This before there was such a thing as "kernel modules" (kernel version 1.2.12). All new hardware required, at a minimum, a kernel recompile plus total manual configuration. Since I could do it, should I conclude that linux from scratch is appropriate for a beginner? Not all beginners are created equal. -kev 07-24-2004 22:33:08

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) Dick Puller You have a descent machine. Linux should run pretty fast. A lot of people go on about Gentoo because its optimised to your cpu but as it is a pain to install I would like to make an alternative distro recommendation. I think you should look at Vidalinux, I have the iso sitting on my hard disk but haven't tried it yet. Vidalinux is Gentoo with Red Hats anaconda installer ported to it, there are ready made iso's for all x86 cpu's and as portage is there it should be easy to update. As a side note, I find linux gets faster if you keep your machine on all the time. Oh yeah, the boot up time is often longer with linux. Also if your P$ has hyperthreading I think you should be using an SMP kernel. Let us know how you get on. 07-25-2004 05:23:25

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) SM... The machine you have is a fast one. My experience is that speed issues are tied more to disk utilisation rather than CPU speed. To remove speed bottlenecks try the following. 1) Make sure you have enough swap space (about twice the RAM you have if possible). 2) Try the 2.6 kernel. The 2.6 kernel is a lot more responsive than the 2.4 kernel and the maximum timeslice can be adjusted for responsiveness vs overall efficiency. 3) Disable file previews on KDE/Nautilus. These consume disk bandwidth and if you have lots of huge files, they can use up memory, forcing other applications to page virtual memory. 4) If you have enough RAM (as you so), preload OpenOffice and Mozilla into RAM - both have quickstarters. RAM is cheap - get more if you haven't enough. 5) Check that the hard drives are set to the appropriate DMA mode with the vendor's tuning tool or hdparm (careful with hdparm since it can cause loss of data if the wrong mode is set). 6) Use the top command when you get a slowdown to identify what process is monopolising resources. Often distros run "updatedb" to update or security checking scripts run "find" as cron jobs, and these really hammer the hard drive. These can be disabled or set to run at night if they are a problem (the 2.6 kernel handles time sharing between the desktop user and these disk resource monopolizing apps well while the 2.4 kernel isn't as good). 7) You can also tune the partitions for better performance if you really want to squeeze every bit if disk performance out. a) Put one hard drive on each of the IDE connectors rather than both on one. b) Put a swap partition of the same size on each of your hard drives (Linux uses both drives for swap if you do this doubling speed). c) Put frequently accessed partitions (swap, tmp, var) near the middle cylinders of the drive. You can do this with Linux fdisk. This reduces seek time to get to frequently used partitions. d) Put tmp, /usr, /sbin on one drive and /var, /home on another. These are frequently used together so putting them on different drives reduces both seek time and increases data transfer rate. e) Use reiserfs or ext3 without full journaling for speed, or ext3 with full journaling for greater reliability. Both will improve startup times after improper shutdowns. For partitions with very large files (eg. video recording, DVD ISO file manipulation) use xfs. f) If you really want top notch performance, try software RAID 0 (striping), or RAID 1 (mirroring) between the two drives, after partitioning each drive with the same partitions which are going to be used for RAID. Note with Linux software RAID you can use RAID on individual partitions as opposed to the whole disk in the case of hardware RAID. You don't need to RAID the swap partition. It is worth using RAID 0 on the /tmp partition. RAID 1 (mirroring) is used for failure tolerance, but it also doubles read speed at a small penalty in write speed since it can read different parts of a file from both drives. There is no point RAIDing between two partitions on the same drive, or RAIDing between two drives on the same IDE connector. The same applies to SATA drive interfaces - use one SATA drive per channel. Since most PCs only come with two IDE interfaces, consider PCI IDE or SATA adapter(s) to put hard drives on. 07-26-2004 02:31:44

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) Dick Puller WOW ! Good post SM... 07-27-2004 01:49:15

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) wavowet You should ignore the people that are saying that linspire is bad, Its really not, there just mad because no other operating system thought of the idea called click and run. And only the nerds are mad it linspire because linspire wants to make linux easier for people. And click and run is a program that installs other programs with just a click of a mouse. if ya want to learn more about the linux operating system go to www.linspire.com. its cool im useing it! 09-15-2004 16:26:11

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) kevin Profile there just mad because no other operating system thought of the idea called click and run. Well, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. SuSE's yast allows you to install software with the click of a mouse. So does Xandros. Also, any debian based system can install software via one of kpackage or synaptic, both of which are purely mouse driven. And only the nerds are mad it linspire because linspire wants to make linux easier for people. If geeks are annoyed by linspire, it's because they have people like yourself believing they invented the idea (they didn't), that the idea was so revolutionary that nobody else would have thought of it (it isn't), and nobody else is doing it (they are). In short, they are embracing the same marketing tactics that lead me to consider microsoft as a vile and disreputable company. However, their technology looks good and the great thing about linux is that you can run linspire, I can run debian, and it doesn't make a bit of difference as to the apps we are running. Linux provides the vehicle for tru competition, and if people like Linspire for it's strengths then more power to them. -kev 09-15-2004 16:43:21

RE:a fast linux desktop? (modified 0 times) JeffS Speaking of Debian based distros (and I'm now a huge fan of Debian quality), I'm having a tremendous, fantastic, easy, highly satisfied and productive and fun time with Mepis. Mepis is based on Debian unstable, as well as the hardware detection and autoconfiguration from Knoppix, and finally the compression/decompression of Knoppix. Like Knoppix, Mepis runs from CD. Unlike Knoppix, Mepis adds a great deal of polish. Also unlike Knoppix, Mepis adds a completely brain-dead-easy GUI intaller (took 18 minutes on my machine). Finally, also unlike Knoppix, Mepis remains mostly compliant with Debian testing and unstable repositories, so you can apt-get install or apt-get upgrade with the Debian repositories to your heart's content, without breaking the installation. I'm running it on an eMachines T1600, which has a 1.4GHz AMD and 256meg of RAM. It is also dual booting with WinXP (also a brain-dead-easy thing to do with the Mepis installer). And let me tell you, as for speed, Mepis absolutely screams. When I boot into WinXP, it can be sluggish, even with plenty of cpu speed and plenty of RAM. When I boot into Mepis, it is completely lickety-split snappy fast - Formula 1 race car or SR-71 spy jet kind of fast. The only slow downs I experience are when opening OpenOffice or Mozilla, which are big programs with a lot of supporting libraries. But once they do load, they are super fast. Everything else is blazingly fast, at both load up and execution. And hardware detection with Mepis is simply outstanding. Video - check sound - check printing - check (HP Deskjet 940c, and no problem) Conexant WinModem - check - a simple download of the Linuxant driver (they supply a deb) into a FAT32 share drive, then running the installation (a deb file) after booting into Mepis. Then with using KPPP, internet dial up is a breeze. Another great thing about Mepis is that a lot of stuff is preconfigured, such as RealPlayer, Spamassasin, Flash plugins, etc. In short, Mepis gives you a Debian Sarge/Sid install without any intitial fuss. No tweaking or fighting to get everything to work. To repeat an overused phrase, Mepis "just works". My recommendation with Mepis, however, is to stick with Mepis 2003.10 for now. The just released SimplyMepis 2004 is a more stripped down newbie desktop version, and features kernel 2.6 and KDE 3.2, and it's hardware detection is not yet as mature and trouble free as Mepis 2003.10 is. But it will get there. Plus, they will be releasing ProMepis before long, which will have more stuff (Linux goodies) bundled in it. In any case, give Mepis a try. You won't regret it. 09-16-2004 10:36:02

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