| MEPIS founder clarifies MEPIS/Ubuntu relationship |
Feb. 17, 2007
 MEPIS Linux founder Warren Woodford began, a year ago, to migrate MEPIS from Debian to Ubuntu packages, and in July achieved the first Ubuntu-based simplyMEPIS release. In light of the recently announced Linspire/Ubuntu collaboration, DesktopLinux.com asked Woodford to clarify the MEPIS/Ubuntu relationship.
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To get the discussion going, we forwarded Woodford a statement that had been posted in our discussion forum by a reader ("archtoad6") of a recent DesktopLinux.com article, regarding the relationship between MEPIS and Ubuntu. In addition, we added a few of our own questions.
Here's what we learned...
archtoad6: MEPIS pre-dates the Ubuntu project by about 2 years (2002 vs. ca. 2004). Both are offshoots or derivatives of Debian; that is, each started with Debian and modified it to make a separate distro.
Woodford: That's true but incomplete. In accordance with the meaning of "derivative" as often used in the Linux community, it can be said MEPIS was built as a derivative of Debian, just like many other distros. That is, I took packages from the Debian pools and I created my own version of Linux. From a more common point of view, in the U.S. at least, that describes an original work, not a derivative work.
Some other distros are created by taking an existing distro and making some minor modifications or specializations. That's a real derivative distro and a real derivative work as well.
From the beginning, Ubuntu was not a derivative so much as a partnership whereby the two projects share developers and with a formal process whereby Ubuntu took packages from Debian unstable and experimental, improved them, created a release, and provided the improvements back to the Debian pools. To me, the Debian-Ubuntu relationship seems to be unique.
archtoad6: In the spring of 2006, Warren Woodford of MEPIS realized that he didn't have the human resources to adequately maintain his separate repositories.
Woodford: This is misleading. MEPIS didn't have a large repository. For the most part, and like other distros such as Knoppix, I took pieces available in the Debian pools and created a unique user experience or, if you will, artistic expression.
archtoad6: He therefore decided to use the Ubuntu repositories because of their balanced combination of currency and stability. Debian Stable being too far behind the curve, and Debian Testing/Unstable advancing too quickly and breaking too often.
Woodford: This part sounds dead on.
archtoad6: The fair statement (IMO) is not "leverages Ubuntu", but rather "leverages the Ubuntu repositories".
Woodford: This is where it gets very tricky. What does "leverage ubunutu" mean? The Ubuntu assembled distro, or the ubuntu packages?
archtoad6: It's a fine point, but the difference in implications is important -- MEPIS is and remains an independent distro with its own installer, layout, etc.
Woodford: And here I think the author is trying to point out that MEPIS is not Ubuntu. And the fact is, Knoppix is not Debian. And Sabayon is not Gentoo.
Ubuntu and Debian and Gentoo are distros, but they are also collections of components from which a unique different distro can be assembled.
A possible technical rule-of-thumb for judging whether a distro is a "derivative distro" is by whether it maintains it's own kernel. If a distro uses the upstream kernel then perhaps it can be safely called a derivative distro of the upstream distro. But if the distro maintains its own kernels, that means it is deviating in a significant way from the upstream distro, and in this case is utilizing the upstream distro's package pools.
| "MEPIS maintains its own kernels. Interestingly, an Ubuntu kernel is not usable with MEPIS, but a MEPIS kernel is usable with Ubuntu." |
MEPIS maintains its own kernels. Interestingly, an Ubuntu kernel is not usable with MEPIS, but a MEPIS kernel is usable with Ubuntu. I think the same can be said of Knoppix and Debian. I don't know about Sabayon.
As the writer points out, having a unique installer is also an indication of independence. For MEPIS, the fact that we could switch from Debian to Ubuntu without changing the user experience is another demonstration that the nature of MEPIS is not primarily determined by the upstream package source.
But having said all of that, we rely on Ubuntu and Debian, and we are very grateful for the work that they do and the huge contribution they make to the whole of Linux.
DesktopLinux: I had the impression that you are leveraging more than the repositories, and are using the Ubuntu filesystem as a base for the MEPIS distro (with various modifications).
Woodford: Maybe it will clarify matter for me to say, MEPIS is structured the same way it was when I used the Debian pools. Some packages have changed because technologies have changed or we've made improvements, but that's all. Usually the Ubunutu tools and techniques are not well suited to MEPIS because Ubuntu gives priority to GNOME while we give priority to KDE. MEPIS and Ubuntu are philosophically very different. The unique bits that make Ubuntu different from Debian are rarely used, if at all, in MEPIS.
| "If anything, MEPIS is becoming more independent. " |
If anything, MEPIS is becoming more independent. We have MEPIS 6.5 in beta. Recently we updated to X 7.1 and a number of newer kernel drivers and display drivers so we can offer Beryl for those who want it. These packages are built by MEPIS and maintained by MEPIS. Not because I enjoy the extra work, but because the packages I need are not available from the Ubuntu Dapper pools.
DesktopLinux: I'm interested to know more about the nature of the MEPIS/Ubuntu relationship, although I guess it's gray rather than black and white. MEPIS is often called a Ubuntu-derived distribution these days (which is NOT a bad thing!), including on this page of Ubuntu's website.
| "The Ubuntu pools are like a giant warehouse, full of parts that work with each other. It's like a giant set of tinker toys from which you can build many things. " |
Woodford: Again it's a matter of what you mean by those words. Mark and I talked it over before I switched to Ubuntu. He's clear that MEPIS is an independent distro. And yet, it is fair to say on the Ubuntu site that MEPIS is a derivative of Ubuntu, from the point of view that we use the Ubuntu packages. And we use them by choice, because they meet our needs and they're the best available. That reference at the Ubuntu site says that we endorse Ubuntu, and we do.
I like to think of this as being same as when a small high performance auto maker, for example Lotus in the old days, chooses to use parts from one particular big generic auto maker, in the case of Lotus that was Ford. The Ubuntu pools are like a giant warehouse, full of parts that work with each other. It's like a giant set of tinker toys from which you can build many things.
Maybe the distinction will become more obvious now that Linspire is switching to an Ubuntu base. I wouldn't expect that Linspire would be characterized as an Ubuntu-derived distro, but I may be wrong.
DesktopLinux: Thanks for providing this insight into the relationship between MEPIS and Ubuntu. Keep up the great work on simplyMEPIS!
-- Rick Lehrbaum, Executive Editor, DesktopLinux.com (no relation to "archtoad6," who is another Rick)
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